now he was quite impressed with the idea, that that part of the act ought to be repealed, and that something more definite should be enacted in regard to the powers of the Deacons' Courts, and some special directions given in regard to some of the matters which came under their management. As to the seat-rents, the Act of Assembly passed in 1843, provided that, where seat-rents were taken, they were to be applied in the first instance to the payment of interest and the liquidation of debt on the church, and feu-duty, and that all that remained should be put into the Sustentation Fund. It was suggested that the Assembly should enforce this application of the seat-rents. He thought it would be necessary to do one of two things,-either to repeal that clause in the mean time, pass an interim act on the subject, and bring the matter up to the succeeding Assembly, or to will the act to be observed in a uniform manner over the whole Church. He would not like any stringent application of the existing act in regard to seat-rents, and thought they might enlarge the number of objects to which the money might be applied; but he thought the practice ought to be uniform throughout the whole Church, and that the point should be regulated by an act of Assembly. There was another question in regard to the congregational funds, viz., What ought to be done with them? It ought to be precisely stated that they were for supplementing the minister's stipend, after certain specified deductions. The people intended, the congregations intended,-that the money they put into the plate at the church door should be applied in that way. Their understanding was that with certain small and necessary deductions in regard to the ordinary expenses of the congregation, this fund should be applied to the supplementing of the minister's salary. He thought that should be more precisely explained to secure that the collections should be applied for the purpose for which they designed them. The next point was in regard to the minister's supplements, and that also fell to be regulated by a declaratory act, in connection with the question of the jurisdiction of the Deacons' Courts. It was necessary, first, that the supplement should be defined, --that it should be made a thing generally understood what the supplement was,that a minister should know when he had been receiving a supplement, if any, and when not. That should be made quite clear. The second point he thought it would be for the Assembly to consider was, whether or not something farther ought not to be done in regard to supplements. He only threw it out as a suggestion; but it was worthy of consideration whether some relation ought not to be established between the supplement and the sum contributed to the Sustentation Fund,-whether they should not say that the supplement should not exceed two-thirds, or the whole sum, say the whole sum contributed to the Sustentation Fund. He believed it would be of advantage to combine the interests of the supplement and the Sustentation Fund. If that were done, those who wanted to enlarge the supplement would find there was no other way of doing it but by enlarging the general fund. He thought there was another consideration which deserved their attention in reference to this matter, viz., whether they ought not to impose a tax upon large supplements,-whether supplements of a large amount, raised by the rich, ought not to be taxed for the benefit of the poor congregations. He had himself thought of a scheme of this kind, by which a tax would be established of pound for pound beyond a certain amount; for instance, after a minister got £150 a-year, that every pound of additional supplement should be accompanied by a pound to the general fund. In this way, for £150 a-year there would be no tax, but for every £50 additional which they received in supplement, £50 must be put into the general Sustentation Fund. That was the idea which he entertained on that subject. Another point was, that the ordinary collections should be deducted from all special collections at the regular diets of preaching. The more he thought of this the more he was convinced that it was quite indispensable. There was one thing farther which he wished to mention about the supplements, which was, that they should be paid at certain times, and that it ought not to be left indefinite when the minister was to receive his supplement. He had a preference for the terms of Whitsunday and Martinmas. Besides being more convenient to pay over the money at these periods, along with the general dividend, Michaelmas and Lammas were terms not so well known in Scotland as the other two; and he thought it would be of great advantage that the ministers should receive their stipends only twice ayear. (Hear, hear.) He begged leave, in conclusion, to move that this matter should be remitted to a Committee, to consider and report.

Mr SMITH of Greenock, in seconding the motion, concurred in the remarks of Mr

Gray, and strongly urged upon the Assembly the propriety of explaining the act in reference to the powers and duties of Deacons' Courts.

Mr MAKGILL CRICHTON made two practical suggestions,-the first, that the Committee to be named should take care to provide that the practice of deducting ordinary collections be made universal throughout the whole Church; and, in the second place, to define and re-declare to what objects the ordinary collections are to be applied. He knew that, in not a few congregations, the church-door collections were applied to purposes to which they are not strictly applicable, and the supplement to the ministers' stipend was thereby starved.

A long desultory conversation took place as to the matters which should be remitted to the Committee to bring up suggestions upon. The following deliverance was at length agreed upon :-" The Assembly having called for the overtures anent Deacons' Courts by the Presbyteries of Aberdeen and Edinburgh, and by other Presbyteries on the Sustentation Fund and seat-rents, and Mr Gray having been heard on the subject, the Assembly, finding that a considerable number of these overtures relate to the discretion allowed to and exercised by Deacons' Courts in the application of church-door collections, and being of opinion that this matter should without delay be more precisely regulated, appoint a Committee to consider how this object should be carried into effect, and to report."

The Assembly adjourned at a quarter-past one o'clock on Friday morning.

FRIDAY, MAY 28. 1847.

Public Accounts-Speech of Mr Jaffray-Report on the Treasurership-Speeches of Mr A. Bonar, Mr Tweedie, Dr Candlish, Dr Cunningham-Report of Building Committee-Speeches of Mr Beith and Dr Brown-Quoad Sacra Churches-Speeches of Mr Begg, Dr Cunningham, Mr Crichton, Mr Gray-Report on Manse Fund-Speech of Mr Guthrie - Report on Presbyterial Visitations-Report of the Site Committee - Speeches of Mr Sheriff Speirs and Mr M. M. Crichton-Memorials of the Disruption - Report on the Debt of the Church-Report on the State of Religion-Speeches of Dr Cunningham, Mr Duncan, Mr Cupples, Mr Bonar-Testimony of the Church-Speeches of Dr Candlish, Dr Cunningham, Mr Sheriff Monteith, Dr Keith, Dr Henderson.

The Assembly met at eleven o'clock, having been engaged for an hour previously in private conference on the subject of Foreign Missions.

The minutes of last diet having been read, the Assembly remit to the Committee appointed last night on the adoption of the Overtures relative to Deacons' Courts, to prepare and bring up an Act declaratory of the jurisdiction of Kirk-sessions, and the procedure of Deacons' Courts in certain particulars.

On the motion of Dr CANDLISH, a small Committee was appointed to prepare the Annual Act anent the Collections for the Schemes of the Church, and also to prepare any particular acts in relation to the several Schemes which the proceedings of this house may render necessary.

The Assembly had transmitted through the Committee of Bills, Petition of Mr Duncan Matheson, Gairloch, with reference from the Presbytery of Lochcarron regarding the annexation of the district of Lochalsh to the congregation at Plockton, which reference having been taken up by the Assembly, was remitted to the Committee on the Sanctioning of Charges.

The Assembly had also transmitted through their Committee of Bills, application of the Presbytery of Abertarff, relative to the taking upon trials of Mr Ewan C. M'Lean, Student of Divinity, which application the Assembly remit to the same Committee.

PUBLIC ACCOUNTS.

Mr JAFFRAY said,-In the absence of Mr Bridges, the Convener of this Committee, it has devolved on me, as Secretary, to make some remarks on the subject of the public accounts, previous to the Assembly taking the matter into consideration. In the Report, the proof copy of which was put into the hands of the members of the Assembly on Saturday last, it will be observed that the abstract of the account of the Committee on the Debt of the Church did not appear. I hold an abstract of it in my hand, which I will read to the Assembly. On reading it, Mr Jaffray proceeded to say, I am charged, in the absence of the Convener, to make a remark or two on the proof-sheet that has been put into the hands of the members. I have to state that an alteration requires to be made in the sum total, as reported on Saturday. The sum

total of the gatherings from all the sources are stated to be £320,274 : 11 : 24.; but it has only been discovered since that proof-sheet was issued that generally the congregations throughout the country have reported their collections for the Highland Destitution in the returns sent to Mr Macdonald's office; therefore the collection for Highland destitution appears twice in the accounts, and there falls to be a deduction made of somewhere about £9000. We have not as yet been able to extricate the congregational from the miscellaneous and individual offerings, but I believe it will be found to be somewhere about the sum stated which reduces the total gatherings into the treasury of the Free Church to £311,000. But there has been a sum supplied to the Mission Buildings in India, and reported since this Report was brought before the house, raised by the exertions of Lady Seton, and which amounts to £520, And then, the debt of the church, the abstract of which account I have read just now, and which is not included in the Report submitted on Saturday, and which falls to be added, amounts to £1203. There is also a sum for the Glasgow Normal School, the exact amount of which I do not know, but which, I am informed, amounts to £600 or £700, which ought also to be added, so that the real total of the revenue of the Free Church of Scotland for 1846-47 will be somewhere about £313,000 instead of £320,000, as formerly reported. And then, I have to state that, in consequence of the plan, for the first time adopted, of letting the Report lie on the table for several days before the Assembly's judgment was craved, Mr Macdonald and I have received several suggestions and communications from parties that desired certain alterations in these states. In regard to my friend Mr Macdonald's department, embracing, as it does, the Sustentation and the Building and Congregational Funds, as exhibited in the columns of these accounts, I am warranted in saying that only some three or four calls have been made upon him, in connection with these papers; and Mr Macdonald was able, in every instance, to satisfy the parties who called upon him, that there was no inaccuracy on his part in entering the sums for their congregations precisely as reported to him. In regard to the missionary contributions, I have received a few suggestions; they are, in all, but four, or perhaps five; and the errors, or rather the supposed errors, really turn out not to be chargeable against me or my office at all, but to have resulted from the methods employed by the parties in transmitting the money. Of course the few changes, not affecting the totals in these papers, are in course of being corrected, as desired by the parties. But there is only one collection, amounting to £1, 3s., in regard to which it has been found impossible to come to an understanding. In regard to this collection, I have to state that I have made every search and every inquiry into it, and I have come to the conclusion that that collection has not been transmitted in due form to any of the receivers of money for the Free Church. It does not stand in the treasurer's books at all, and I am satisfied that the absence of it must be traced to the improper way in which it had been forwarded to Edinburgh; and I am confirmed in this impression by the remembrance of another collection from the same place, which was sent, not as from the Church, but as, after a long interval and much inquiry, a place bearing the name of the sender's residence. After examining into all the Gazetteers within our reach, we were not able to find out such a place in Scotland; and, therefore, I am inclined to conclude that the omission of this collection is to be traced to the parties remitting. On the part of the Public Accounts Committee, I beg most respectfully to state, that, with the exception of a few typographical errors, which in general speak for themselves, and with the exception, also, of two or three minor corrections, chiefly relative to the names of places and the transposition of sums, with these isolate exceptions, I beg, on the part of the Public Accounts Committee, to say, that we do stand on the accuracy of these documents, especially after the testing process to which they have been subjected during these days past, and that we now await the judgment of the Assembly.

"The General Assembly having resumed consideration of the Report of the Committee on Public Accounts, approve of the same, re-appoint the Committee, directing them to complete the accounts, and when duly audited, to have them printed in sufficient number, and circulated throughout the Church, as well as appended to the Acts of Assembly.”

THE TREASURERSHIP.

Mr ARCHIBALD BONAR said he had now to give in the Report of the Committee appointed to consider what arrangements it would be necessary to make, in conse

quence of the resignation of the Treasurer to the several Missionary Schemes of the Church. It was as follows:

"The Committee appointed to consider what arrangement it might be proper to make in consequence of Mr Archibald Bonar's resignation of the office of treasurer of several of the Missionary Schemes of the Church, beg to report that they are of opinion that the treasurership of the whole funds of the Church, or at least, in the meantime, of the Missionary and Education Schemes of the Church, should be held by one individual,- —a paid functionary of the Church,-whose time should be wholly devoted to the duties of the office. But it being impossible, during the sittings of the Assembly, either to suggest an individual, or to specify the duties he would have to perform, they beg to propose that the Assembly re-appoint the Committee, with the addition of the Conveners of all the schemes affected by the proposed arrangement, with power to carry this into effect, by the appointment of an interim-treasurer as soon as possible, and adopting all the regulations as to security, check, and other general duties which will be necessary for the proper discharge of the office. They would further suggest that the Committee be instructed to examine the general system of the whole accounts, and report to next General Assembly, especially directing their attention to the expense of management, that the strictest economy be observed in every department; and they would further recommend that such an examination, by a Committee of the business men of the House, should be made periodically, say every five years. "ARCH. BONAR, Convener."

Mr BONAR, in continuation, said-The Committee had not the slightest idea that there was any want of economy in the management of the affairs of the Church. On the contrary, they were convinced that the very reverse was the fact. He did not think it was necessary for him to say anything in recommendation of the plan proposed. The present system, no doubt, had wrought well, but still there was a great deal of trouble and anxiety, and somewhat of risk, in having various places of payment, and different persons by whom discharges were granted. Their friends, when they came up to Edinburgh, were tossed about for answers to their inquiries from one person to another; and, as one gentleman had said, when they wished for information, they could not understand to which of the innumerable Committees of the Church to apply. By the appointment of the official proposed, the business of the Church would be concentrated; and it was to be understood that the peculiar duties and functions of the Committees were not in the least to be interfered with, nor control exercised over them, by this official. The treasurer was to have no power to give away the funds of the Church, nor to come between the Committee and the Assembly in the discharge of its duties. He begged just to say a word in regard to himself. Ever since the Disruption, he had had some part in these matters; and being, from particular circumstances, compelled to retire from part of these labours, he just wished to say one word as to the peculiarly solemn gratification which he had enjoyed in all this business. (Hear, hear.) He felt deeply honoured by the Free Church giving him any charge in connection with this great movement. He accounted it the proudest period of his life that a body such as the Free Church should have given him that confidence and that charge, and he trusted that his interest in this matter would never cease. He should at all times be at the disposal of the Church, and ready to do in her service what was in his power. (Hear.) From his own increasing business, he saw that it was impossible for him to continue the treasurer of the Missionary Schemes, but otherwise his services would not be withdrawn from the Church. (Applause.)

Mr TWEEDIE said, he took the liberty of moving the adoption of this Report. It was a most satisfactory thing to have it to say, that after pecuniary transactions, extending now to a million and a half, nothing had been detected that was wrong, all had been regular, upright, and business-like. He was the more disposed to go into this Report, from having taken the liberty of suggesting a measure somewhat similar in regard to the fund with which he was connected. He thought it would increase public confidence, and give them satisfaction in their own minds, were there a periodical examination of the accounts by business men connected with the Church. (Hear, hear.) Whether it should be at so distant a date as five years, or whether it should be at the end of every three years, he did not say; but he was sure it would be satisfactory to their friends without, as well as all the members of the house, that such a measure was gone into. Another reason for adopting this Report was, the unity it

would give to all their pecuniary operations. It was desirable to have a judicious unity of their pecuniary transactions; and one of the recommendations of the plan was, that it would relieve their esteemed friend Mr Bonar from a responsibility which he knew he had felt to be heavy, although at the same time he had readily and heartily given himself to the work. He could not say how much the Church was indebted, and indeed he would not try to express it, to Mr Bonar; and while they all regretted his retirement, he was persuaded that they would cordially agree to convey to him their warmest thanks. (Hear, hear.) He concluded by moving the adoption of the Report.

Dr CANDLISH seconded the motion. He was sure the House would not need to be assured that this step taken by Mr Bonar did not indicate, and could not possibly be construed as indicating either any relaxation of his efforts on behalf of the Free Church of Scotland, or any alteration whatever in their confidence in him. It was merely a deep sense of the importance of a right management of the affairs of the Free Church of Scotland that had induced him to take this step. It must, indeed, be a matter of great congratulation that, at the beginning of so vast a movement, this Church enjoyed the services of such a man as Mr Bonar. They never could sufficiently acknowledge these services. (Cheers.) But, at the same time, it was altogether unreasonable that they should expect an individual engaged in so multifarious business of his own, to continue to take the management and responsibility of so vast a concern as the schemes of the Free Church of Scotland have now become. He might mention as one consideration that must reconcile the Church to the change, that, in consequence of the singularly multifarious nature of the transactions of the Free Church of Scotland, the varied sources from whence the revenues came in to Mr Bonar,— and the varied payments he was called to make,—matters had become so complicated, that he believed, were any circumstances in the providence of God depriving the Church of Mr Bonar's continuance amongst them, the explication of the affairs of the Church would be well-nigh impossible. It was in order to secure a perfect simplicity in regard to the many transactions of the Church, that the proposal was made of appointing an official person,-a treasurer,-who was to give security for his responsibility, to devote his whole attention to the business, and to be properly remunerated for his labours by the Church. He might mention also the convenience that would result from this arrangement both to ministers and congregations. It had been already stated that when ministers and others came to Edinburgh, they were tossed from person to person, and from Committee-room to Committee-room, and could never get the information they wanted. This individual, thus appointed, would be able from day to day to give information as to the exact state of every one of the funds, and to satisfy all inquiries, from whatever quarter they might be made, on that point. Then, again, as regarded the Committees, Mr Bonar had already stated that this treasurer did not interfere with the transaction of the business of the Committees. He would be cognizant, of course, of what the Committees did in the receiving and expending of money. One advantage of that would be, that every Committee would be capable by a simple application to this treasurer, to know at any moment what was the precise amount of the funds, or what were the payments that had been made. A Committee wishing at any moment to ascertain the state of its funds, with a view perhaps to regulate its procedure, required to go through a long process, to learn every farthing that has come in to the Church's revenue, and every farthing that goes out of it. This, of course, would be known to the treasurer, and specially noted by him, so that information as to the state of the funds of any of the Committees could be known at any moment. The advantage of this no one could over-estimate; and he believed, although it might seem at first that they were about to appoint an individual with a salary, about to increase the expense of management, yet he had the authority of the business men of that Committee for saying, that their decided impression was, that the result would be really a saving in point of management to the Church. (Hear, hear.) The present mode of management involved sundry minor expenses, which in this way would be saved. (Hear.) A single individual giving his undivided attention and whole time to the matter would be able to economise many branches of the pecuniary management of the affairs of the Church. He might be allowed to state, that he had the authority of the business men connected with the Church, and especially those who had investigated its affairs, for stating that never was any pecuniary

Ee